[p2p-research] P2P Carbon trading - stage one

Michel Bauwens michelsub2004 at gmail.com
Wed Nov 18 16:30:59 CET 2009

Hi robin,

if you have time, I would appreciate an overview for our blog, 'what to
think of carbon trading',


On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 8:49 PM, Robin <robokow at gmail.com> wrote:

> Interesting spam here. I think you can expect more like this.
> I have done extensive research on carbon trading when it was just
> starting, early 2000s and published a bunch of articles in Dutch
> press, including the main business newspaper.
> For anyone interested in this sort of material, find some critical
> info here: http://www.carbontradewatch.org/
> Personally I think that if you want to commodify the air/ or the
> 'right to pollute', it would only make sense if each person in the
> world would get an equal right to Co2 emission, based on what is
> sustainable (around 90% less than what we pollute now). Fair
> distribution you might call it. Then, let the trading begin (and the
> money flows North to South).
> But unfortunately the allocation per state has (already!) been done
> with the trade-agreement Kyoto Protocol, on basis of how much each
> (Northern) state was polluting already.
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 5:24 AM, J. Andrew Rogers
> <reality.miner at gmail.com> wrote:
> > One thing that makes me highly skeptical of most carbon offset sites is
> that
> > there never seems to be a way for normal individuals that have
> substantial
> > carbon sequestration capacity to sell offsets.  At the end of the day, it
> > always seems to be about funneling money to anointed parties rather than
> > creating a genuine market for carbon sequestration.
> Carbon offset projects can also damage communities. There are many
> examples of this:
> http://www.carbontradewatch.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=319&Itemid=36
> >From the conclusion of the article linked above:
> "The emerging global carbon offset market has created a lucrative new
> commodity while essentially distracting from the real and difficult
> steps needed to avert the climate crisis. In hundreds of locations
> around the world, polluting private companies are building up new
> profit centres to capture green finance. These carbon projects are
> subsidizing some of the most polluting companies in the world.
> The reality of these projects is startling. Even renewable projects
> that look the best at the outset are rife with conflicts. A brief look
> at market fundamentals suggests why such conflicts are almost
> inevitable. The most reliable providers of offset credits will
> inevitably be big, highly-capitalized firms or agencies in a position
> to hire carbon consultants and accountants, liaise with officials, or
> pay the fees needed for UN registration.
> These projects are not set up to deal with the real complexities and
> intricacies of communities and livelihoods. They require enormous
> quantities of resources in terms of land, water, and machinery and do
> not benefit the local communities or ecology. They generally take
> place in regions where people have little political power, engendering
> a deeper North–South divide."
> Robin
> ---
> Life happens at the level of events, not of words
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