[p2p-research] Building Alliances (basic income and entrepreneurship)
Paul D. Fernhout
pdfernhout at kurtz-fernhout.com
Sat Nov 7 18:56:03 CET 2009
J. Andrew Rogers wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 9:19 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Another view is that talent is distributed in many ways, and so our systems
>> need to be more distributed to capture that innovation and contribution, as
>> that is not sufficiently done at present.
> This is true, but you are not understanding why it is true or the
> nature of that system. I take it no one here is a big fan of math?
Used to be. :-)
But I found in grad school that people can bully as well as mislead with
math, same as most anything else.
I agree with Michel that we should be careful linking our self-worth with
some current understanding in the sciences.
> I have metaphysics? Does my mother know?
She probably helped give it to you. :-)
Like you said about driving a car and thermodynamics, all our mental actions
link to our metaphysical ideas, we just may not be aware of them explicitly.
> Well that's the problem now, isn't it? I'm waiting for someone to
> propose a way to do that which passes basic critical muster, but there
> hasn't been much beyond handwaving. I've been working on this problem
> for years, but from a slightly more rigorous perspective.
As I said elsewhere, assumptions, values, emotions, and aesthetic choice of
valid tools, are all required to do any kind of thinking. So, rigor may be
in the eye of the beholder. :-)
> We can't meaningfully solve these problems if we pretend fundamental
> problems with the proposals don't exist. I've heard all these happy
> proposals before, because I used to work with NGOs on designing
> sustainable systems and international protocols of this type. We
> initially made the same naive mistakes then that are being made here
Many NGOs are so bureaucratic as to be dysfunctional. I'm not sure one can
generalize from them to p2p.
Can you please provide a summary list of detailed mistakes (and ideally how
to avoid them)?
How is Debian GNU/Linux a mistake? Or Wikipedia? Or the web? Sure, they all
could be better, of course. Improvable is not quite the same in feel as
mistaken, even though one might argue they are similar issues.
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