[p2p-research] Workshop on Media Ecologies: Q&A: Sam Rose

Samuel Rose samuel.rose at gmail.com
Wed Aug 26 17:44:05 CEST 2009

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Michel Bauwens<michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sam,
> where can I find a nice overview summary of the basic needs that need to be
> covered by a p2p infrastructure,

Well this is the topic of the book that Paul, Rick Adler and myself
are writing at http://flowsbook.panarchy.com/  of course it is only
about 1/4 of the way there so the concise view you need isn't there
quite yet :-)

Actually, the chapter outline we currently have gives the FLOWS model
that we are saying is the basic model people require for all forms of
basic survival.

# Energy Commons
# Food Commons
# Thing Commons
# Cultural Commons
# Access Commons

Creating an infrastructure commons around the above needs will create
what we are calling a "wealth generating ecology".

"Wealth generating ecology" is what I offer to people when they ask me
to create an open source business model for them. I tell them that
they don't need a "business model" they need a "wealth generating
ecology" that generates multiple types of wealth, defined by what the
people and systems in the ecology decide is 'wealth'. (For instance,
in Adam Arvidsson's "Ethical Economy", sound ethics and actual trust
are one of the highest forms of "wealth" in the system. )

Energy and Food commons are self explanatory (in fact if you really
think about it, food is actually part of the energy commons, as food
is transformed and stored energy for human physical systems) "Thing
Commons" above is what some people call "means of production". Open
license machines, designs, materials, etc. This is probably going to
be Paul's offering to the group. But, we'd work on it with you ahead
of time either way.

"Access Commons" is our current place holder for access to data flows,
designs, networks, resources, anything that is a building block
towards basic survival. Plus, it addresses the encirclement of
concepts and resources which were never meant to have access blocked
off from (like atomics particles and compounds, genes, etc that
otherwise naturally flow and evolve freely within systems).

The FLOWS model as a model for the creation of a "wealth generating
ecology" (not FLOWS internet specification, which is meant to be a
real world example of the model) suggests that human activity should
emulate the energy flow of natural systems. By blocking and damming
the flow of energies, and access to deposits of built up resources, we
are trying to defy the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Our systems ultimate
collapse because the defiance of the law is a charade, and is used to
help keep a small amount of people safe from the effects of this 2nd
law of entropic dissipation.

We are saying that anyone can apply our model right now, to human
systems, and see results right away.

To apply, you need to align your inputs and consumptions with the
outputs of others, and make your outputs available as inputs for

Designs need to apply a principle of plurality, many ways to employ
and reuse the same resource. Plurality is not enough, the principle of
diversity is also needed, many different ways to use many different

Paul just stated to me that Complex Adaptive systems optimize the flow
of energy in emergent ways, they usually do not block, or hoard energy
flows in systems when left to evolve and emerge on their own.

So, if we take energy that is in the form of matter, shape it into a
fast food container, use it once, and then throw it into a hole in the
ground, we are blocking the potential for optimized dissipation of
that energy. Complex systems theory contains many of the simple
rules-based models that we need to start optimizing our energy flows
in useful ways.

> I'd love to have this, and work on some illustrations to show what kind of
> community-enterpreneurial-funding coalitions would be necessary to carry it
> out. I feel this mapping and call for enterpreneurial coalitions may well be
> the next focus of the p2p foundation,
> Michel
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 9:29 PM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Right, we might say that the paper folding is stored so other folk or
>> > bots
>> > might fold the paper in that same configuration later on.
>> > You may not have paper and want to make it yourself? Okay, there's your
>> > representation, here's where the materials are located. No bots in the
>> > area?
>> > No problem, all of this is in walking distance, and other folk may be
>> > interested in your project to help place those needed items closer to
>> > your
>> > location.
>> >>
>> Nathan, I am sorry to tell you that I personally have little interest
>> in investing the amount of time that I know it will take to create and
>> execute the paper folding bot in 3D room demonstration that you are
>> suggesting here.
>> I am personally much more interested in putting time like that into
>> practical applications that can help people, like developing
>> automation systems for aquaponics and hydropnics, creating protocols
>> for open source software systems that people are currently using to
>> talk to each other, creating mobile food processing units for use in
>> local food systems, things like that.
>> The idea is cool, but not something that I am interested in investing
>> time into. In the end, we'd have a robot that can fold paper :-)
>> >
>> > How 'bout EMC? Fenn forwarded this info to the OM list.
>> > http://wiki.openkollab.com/wagn/Enhanced_Machine_Controller_EMC
>> >
>> I use EMC2 http://www.linuxcnc.org/content/view/2/4/lang,en/ I agree
>> it is great!
>> >>
>> >> Although, it seems like it would be easier to just use telesurgery
>> >> robots and cameras if you want to do remote folding! I guess it
>> >> depends on what the real goal is here.
>> >
>> > The goal is to do anything remotely!
>> >
>> Our goal here is to first help people address the basic needs for
>> energy, food, shelter, and general physiological and psychological
>> survival using open source software and technology. Retorifitting
>> existing urban infrastructure, putting vacant land and buildings to
>> use, localizing food production, that sort of thing. I frankly way too
>> busy with that work to rise the challenge of the remote paper folding
>> robot.
>> >>
>> >> A more practically immediately implementable example, IMO,  of what
>> >> FLOWS and open standards can do with regard to flexible fabrication
>> >> would be to allow people to store and serve multiple parts of a
>> >> "package" of CAD files, bill of materials, parametrics data, and any
>> >> other relative data about a technology, or the technologies needed to
>> >> make that technology, in a distrbuted way (like on multiple servers).
>> >
>> > I hope Zach (cc'd) you might have something to say on this with his work
>> > in
>> > CAD repositories (Thingiverse) and distributed manufacturing. You're
>> > coming
>> > to the workshop, right? ;)
>> Yes, coming to the workshop for sure.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> These packages could still be maintained by a specific project or
>> >> person. That project or person would really do the job of "vetting"
>> >> the contents of that package so that other people reasonably know they
>> >> can trust it.
>> >
>> > It would be best if this aspect were automated, via rates of selection,
>> > 'do
>> > you like?' input requests, or some other automated selection criteriori.
>> >
>> Well, think of it this way, you could make a standard way to represent
>> a package, and then you could make unlimited applications that add in
>> functionality like question asking (just as there are multiple
>> applications that work with debian package management system). I would
>> not put this extra functionality into a package management system
>> itself, though.
>> >>
>> >> But, the same files could live in many, many packages,
>> >> each maintained by a specific maintainer. FLOWS gives a standard way
>> >> of letting a system know that your files or data are part of a package
>> >> (or to submit for inclusion in a package). Now, you can park your
>> >> design files *anywhere*, yet they can still be part of a package.
>> >
>> > Yes. Redudancy where it counts, just in case a server or two
>> > crashes--the
>> > mesh gots you covered.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Another practical immediate example is that you could export certain
>> >> contents of those files to be repackaged as a PDF, and even create a
>> >> print on demand book from that collection of files. You could actually
>> >> export a collection of files in any way that is possible through
>> >> existing open source libraries. A FLOWS based component could also
>> >> send out all kinds of meta data about the packages. Who is accessing
>> >> them, multiple materials sources for what the package is made of, etc
>> >
>> > Sounds as if that would be a practical implement you can charge these
>> > proprietarians for royally so as to put the reserve notes to better use:
>> > meaning: less. ;)
>> >
>> > Nathan
>> --
>> --
>> Sam Rose
>> Social Synergy
>> Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
>> Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
>> skype: samuelrose
>> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
>> http://socialsynergyweb.com
>> http://socialsynergyweb.org/culturing
>> http://flowsbook.panarchy.com/
>> http://socialmediaclassroom.com
>> http://localfoodsystems.org
>> http://notanemployee.net
>> http://communitywiki.org
>> "The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human
>> ambition." - Carl Sagan
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Sam Rose
Social Synergy
Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
skype: samuelrose
email: samuel.rose at gmail.com

"The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human
ambition." - Carl Sagan

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