[p2p-research] The failure of micro-credit?

Michel Bauwens michelsub2004 at gmail.com
Tue Aug 25 10:32:04 CEST 2009

would your system be similar with the revolving savinds and loan pools
already massively practiced in many countries of the south?


On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Michel Bauwens<michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > hi Sam,
> >
> > I'm puzzled by your 'total' opposition to credit.
> Well, I am not "totally" opposed to credit. In fact, if one person
> wants to lend another money, my opinion is irrelevant.
> However, I do advocate other choices over credit, because the desire
> to implement microlending systems was becoming the default go-to
> choice for many people trying to implement peer lending systems.
> >Even most monetary
> > reformers/transformers recognize the difference between turnover credit,
> and
> > investment credit. They usually say the problem is that contemporary
> money
> > conflates them, and that a proper separation is better. In fact, people
> like
> > Thomas Greco advocate, convincingly that a mutual credit clearing system
> > would be much superior to the current money system.
> >
> > I don't think the bangladeshi women would have access to any pools in the
> > first place ...
> The same resources that are put towards micro credit could have been
> used to create pools.
> What if the first woman who got a loan, instead of paying it back,
> worked with community people to find the next person who qualified for
> a "loan" and sent the payments to her or him instead, with a community
> entity tracking that this was happening. Repeat this many times, and
> you have a community resource pool (in this case the "pool" is all
> money). You don't need a "bank" to mediate this. All you need are a
> few micro investments to start it.
> >However, they could issue their own currency/credit clearing
> > system for their own exchanges, bypassing the need for 'bank's and
> > debt-based money.
> >
> > I've never seen microfinance as a panacea, but from the documentaries I
> have
> > seen, there is a huge boost in the dignity and collective identity of
> those
> > particpating, at least in the good schemes. Isn't the problem that
> > microfinance has become commercial, with outfits such as in mexico now
> > asking interest that is even higher than normal banks?
> I'd be a lot more comfortable with it if I knew for sure that the
> people in Bangladesh, Mexico, etc were at least co-owners of the banks
> or finance entities that lent them the money (eg credit unions). This
> will keep their loans from becoming products that can be passed around
> corporate banking systems. Plus, will keep their money and interest
> they are paying back in their own communities. Not that I know for
> sure who is behind any of these loans, but it would be nice to know
> that localized economies were considered
> I am definitely not totally opposed to lending and credit. But, I want
> to help people see credit as not always needing to be the first and
> only option. But rather one of many alternatives
> >
> > Michel
> >
> --
> --
> Sam Rose
> Social Synergy
> Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
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> skype: samuelrose
> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
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> ambition." - Carl Sagan

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